LLD101

thegreatduper · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 24 0.00 Silvarrr

I've never made a kicker before but considering one. I'm thinking about using these because of the skills, insane ias, and the -target def (viable?)

Any comments?

GODZ! · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject:

you don't even need the ias on the claw to reach a 7/3/3... kick frame. The wsm and bos lvl will probably be enough already.

the deadly strike and the -%def is fucking sweet though.

krajee · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 6579 9.68 Silvarrr

That just screams for a mld kicker. Gogo fade.

Of course it isn't too bad for a trapper, either.

Ehhh · Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Posts: 689 0.00 Silvarrr

The only thing that really stands out on those claws is the 50% IAS, which will probably allow you to use Fade. The DS is crap for a kicker (only CB/OW work on kicks). -%Def isn't amazingly effective (totally unneeded for most duels, not that effective against pallies/barbs), but still nice to have.

ubermoose · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:48 am Post subject:

TBH, i think the normal bartucs would be better for kickers.
Although it doesnt have the ias, it has 30 more stats, 20% ar [which will work for kicks?], 30fhr and +1MA instead of shadow.

Moritz · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 377 0.00 Silvarrr

i'd also prefer .09+ bartucs.

ilkori · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:25 am Post subject:

I'd use one of each (.08, .09). With 50 IAS and -30 WSM, you reach the fastest speed, so as krajee and ehhh guessed/mentioned, that means Fade (without any more IAS). Then the .09 would provide extra str/dex/fhr this one doesn't offer. I consider the +shadow far better than the +martial. If nothing else, you use more shadow abilities, giving you more bang for the buck.

skulmaster · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:

If a barb has 2500 k defense (in theory)
and he recieves +150% ed from shout and +200%ed from iron skin, he will have 2500 x (1 + 1,5 + 2)= 11250 defense.

with the ~-30% from CoS+eth rune he will now have +320% def instead of 350% or a total of 2500 x (1 + 3,2) = 10500 defense..

so not really much lower defense. However dealing in Pvm and vs chars without +ed from skills, -%targets defense becomes a lot stronger.
Effectivly taking 30% off the total defense.

For a short and quick answer on the main topic:

thegreatduper · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 24 0.00 Silvarrr

I guess I'll make a lvl 42/45(?) fade-kicker.

What charms would be best for this build? MA,Shadow disc or ar/life?

skulmaster · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject:

A mix of all

ilkori · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject:

Bah. That defense calc is still bugging me. Eth runes (and other weapon -% target defense) works differently than the skill target defense. It factors on the total defense (after other modifiers have already been applied). At least, that's my best understanding.

ilkori · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject:

Shadow. I see no use in Martial aside from Phoenix Strikers and DTailers (pure PvM builds).

Grim04 · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject:

Yes eth does work off total defense, that's why the eth bug was such a big deal back in the day, because it made def pointless.

ubermoose · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:

Surely some +MA is needed to get a nice amount of kicks?

I would have thought 6-7 kicks would be better than a few extra spare skill points [from not needing as many in weapon block/fade/bos/whatever] and a bit less venom dmg.

DeadlyLLD · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

Well, I think that for pure melee duels, a martial arts kicksin would be much better. I think I could probably make a lvl 49 pure martial arts kicksin with 40k attack rating and 8 x kicks that do about 2k dmg each. However, for an overall build, I would say that a pure shadow skills kicksin with high venom dmg and fade is probably the best way to go. But you can find much better claws than those 08 btucs for prebuffing. Try to shop some +3 shadow (maybe with venom on them) and then put in some psn facets. Then I would use something like a normal bartucs because of the + str, dex, fhr, etc. I think with ideal gear, you could probably get a lvl 49 kicksin with a bit over 2k dmg venom per kick, 5 or 6 kicks, somewhere between 12k and 20k ar, and about lvl 50 fade so that you don't need any dmg reduced from your gear.