LLD101

[Kavlor]

[Meegz ?]

i too agree with meitou on the prison/decrep thing, but i dont do it against zeal paladins on my necro. every other char is fair game, imo. smiters can get through my bone armor and my perf block is useless against them, so i have to keep them away. plus, the good smiters now use enigma in most cases, so barbs and zons esp i decrep and prison, because most barbs use enigma for one (i tele into my prisons so they absorb the hits and not me) and zons run so friggin much its annoying.

the only reason i dont against zealots, is because they have zero chance if i do. literally, i can get enough spirits off on them namelocked after dropping one prison and decrep that by the time they get through the prison, if they do, they're toast. no chance.

btw, why use holy freeze+clegs on a general smiter/zealot? slow caps @ 50% i thought...so its just a regular smiter build, but instead of a +combat scepter its a generals. which i find bm vs melee chars, to adress the original topic. "ice" bowazons are probably the worst thing ever for z v z, lol. holy freeze is such a bitch.

[meitou]

[Goky]

Echoing on what rjg said about all the level 18's, I forgot to mention that.

As he said, the beauty of the level 18 class is balance, I don't think any ONE class prevails over the others. Out of the best characters on there, whenever we duel, it's never clear cut who is going to win, there's never any "best" character, because it can always go either way, and there's a lot of strategy involved.

And, as said, if my zon decided to use clegs gloves + slow missiles against ear_god's bone necro or rjg's throwbarb, it'd just be a lesson in pointlessness, there would absolutely be no big point in dueling.

I'm relatively new to LLD'ing, as I started back in december. My first character was an 18 zealot, and basically I didn't want to have fun dueling, I wanted to kill people, I mainly just pubby dueled, and that was pretty much all he was good for.

After scrapping him and making some other characters, I finally realized that just killing people easily or killing people much weaker than me isn't fun at all. I don't want to slaughter everyone and destroy them, that's not enjoyable, it's like using god mode in Doom or something. I want to actually have fun, challenging, strategic duels. And when one person uses something like decrep, slow missiles, or a slow item, then they are no longer fun, strategic, or challenging.. just retarded (yes I said retarded).

[Roy]

[Draken_Werewolf]

[Roy]

Obviously cookie cutter zealers dominate the level 18 scene, but there are some builds that can handle them pretty easily. Defensive smiters, conc barbs, spear necros, fissure druids, throw barbs, and bowzons are all viable options.

The problem is, yes, putting on slow might balance the scales a little bit... until your opponent does the exact same thing right back. At that point, you've got cookie cutter characters all using slow gear, which makes dueling boring.

[krajee]

[DarkMousy]

A kicker with a strength brandistock = charge/smite with the generals, switch to normal weap, flash holy freeze and smite to death. IMO the only other melee characters that stand a chance against a good smiter would be fury druid/wwbarb (YES I consider ww/smite melee by definition. I wouldn't group them in the same melee tiers for obvious balance reasons, but w/e).

[PaulRishell]

[quote="Naruto-QoG"]I have a lld pally smiter and he uses generals flail
with 50% slow some people feel that this is BM
and they nk me

yes thats very bm, and if u used it on me id nk u too.. and id bm back

[food-ranger]

[Dao Jones]

I've seen debates like this one since I joined the site, and they always seem to follow the same lines. The problem, as I understand it, is one of perception; specifically, an individual's perception of what is or isn't considered a "fair duel".

The rules of LLD101/Clan Honor were created in an attempt to ensure that player skill, not merely item accumulation or cheap game stats, would determine dueling ability. Simultaneously, a second goal was to ensure that duels would be fun; i.e. not two duelists frozen, slowed, crippled via curses, and surrounded by bone prisons. Duels like this aren't usually enjoyable (unless you're doing it to your enemy while he sits helpless), and so some skills/items were banned to try to maintain the integrity of the dueling experience. Lastly, they were put in place so that two duelists could fight while knowing that both sides were playing under the same set of limitations. However, these rules really just constitute a "gentleman's agreement", and to be flat-out honest, more and more people who duel (and LLD) are anything but "gentlemen". They want to win by any means necessary, and while that isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, it is not in the spirit of LLD101.

To make a comparison, I'd say that LLD101 envisions dueling like the old dogfights of WWI fighter aces: using crappy, rickity tarp-covered planes required enormous piloting skill, luck and tenacity. And when the loser lost, oftentimes they were allowed to retreat with dignity (or rescued and released if they crashed). The inferiority of their equipment forced them to think creatively and skillfully, and the "gentleman's agreement" of the loser's protection by the winner meant that both sides recognized that honor was an important factor in dueling.

Newer duelists, I've noticed, are more like WWII or modern pilots. Their enemy is dehumanized, their only goal is victory at any cost. There is no need for honor, because the goal isn't to play but to win. For these people, any skill or item that gives them an advantage should be used, and they view people that eschew such items are "quaint" or just plain stupid. Again - I'm not saying that either side is wrong or bad; merely that this gap in thinking exists between players on here.

So what that leaves us with is two "camps" on LLD101: "gentleman duelists" and "play-to-win duelists". Both sides assert their way of thinking is "right", and every once in a while the two sides come to a head over interpretation of the rules. My opinion, were it asked (and it's not - I just like sticking my nose in) is that LLD101 should consider scrapping all but the most basic rules of play (i.e. no dupes or hacks, and no character past level 30), and let individual tournament designers decide what rules should apply. I think that over the years LLD101 has been around, it has evolved from "a website for Clan Honor rules low level dueling" into a larger "low level dueling of all kinds community". People come here to talk with fellow LL duelers, discuss basic strategy, and engage with a like-minded community. I doubt very much our enforcement of the "rules" has any bearing on the strength or weakness of what we offer here. Hell - probably a third of the active posters on this site (and several of the mods) don't even play D2 anymore.

[Disclaimer: I don't speak for the site on this; it's just my opinion, as previously stated.]