LLD101

[meitou]

[Belarathon]

all i have to do is have the high frw and run in circles and the fire sorc doesnt hit me much more than 1 time every once in awhile with the 56% fhr bp too, i actually wish for a fire sorc to just try and tele on me and spam fb when i dueled them, it;s much harder if they stay away and try and dodge spirits and stuff, and i have many charms now i didnt have before, and i can have about only 150 less mana with legit charms now than i had with the other charms so i can still fire the same amount of spirits, and if anything it helps a sorc with es and tele about 500x more than a necro lol

[meitou]

[Belarathon]

all those numbers might be true but i can remember dueling fire sorcs and never getting hit once, and i remember vs your fire sorc i could always just get around and not be hit except for maybe a time or 2 unless i make a big mistake but then when you went away for a few minutes with 65 rep life and came back with full life it kinda just makes me give up and not try anymore cause you cant really win vs something that just goes away and comes back with full health everytime it is below half. I don't really care or anything just saying I honestly think that a great necro will beat a great fire sorc in lld most of the time, and even more of the time if she tries just teleing on him, as long as the sorceress doesnt teleport away to regain full hp then come back, and probably if she doesnt have 4,000+ mana either. with good legit stats for a nec and good legit stats for a fire sorc, no running away only to regain life, the necro can win way more often. the life regain tactic puts too much of a favour for the sorc cause she can jsut tele away forever and never be hit by a necro, but if a nec tries toget away and replenish life the sorc can just keep up with him with teleport, and even if the nec has a tele staff he cant tele fast enough to keep up with AND hit a sorc who is constantly teleporting defensivley

[meitou]

When we dueled, what made you to put on hotspur? You can only hit me 1 or 2 times before I completely stunlock you, that 1 or 2 hits are spirits fired randomly at me while I was teleporting on you.

After you put on hotspur, of course you can hit me more often, since you don't go into fhr at all now. As I recall, you didn't run around and dodge fb like you said, you were just standing there tanking me, and that's where I had to put on life replenish stuff.

All I am saying are based on the facts. And the facts lead me to believe that, without +max resis stuff, and all gears being godly but legit, being hell rushed, no lag, lvl 30 fireball sorc can beat lvl30 bone necro every single time.

[Belarathon]

i am pretty sure you don;t recall right, because i know a necro can never tank a fireball sorc especially one with 4,000+ mana and energy shield. the thing that made me put on hotspur is when you had that much mana lol. before you got that many of those charms i didn't use hotspur and i did win more of the times until you started doing replenish, and the next times we dueled after that you had 4,000+ mana and it took about 40 spirits to get you to half and then you would tele away andcome back with full life anyways so i basically couldnt win no matter what so of course i am just gonna sit there and tank

[meitou]

You must be mistaken then. I had the sorc set up long before ladder seaone 1 ended. At the time it always had 2700+mana. I only dueled you one time before you put on hotspur, and it turned out like I said, you died after firing 1 or 2 spirits at me. Then you actually asked do I mind if you put on hotspur. Then like everyone on east might know, I don't mind at all. Then I tried once without replenish dueling you with hotspur, and I realized it's impossible. Can't remember if I lost that one, or called a halt, but anyway I had to put on replenish stuff for the next duel. We actually didn't finish that duel, because after a while, you kept saying it's pointless, and how running away with replenish is not dueling. After that, we never dueled again between the necro and sorc.

Point is, you never dueled me when I had less than 2700 mana, and you never beat me once without hotspur. When you had hotspur on and I had replenish on, we only dueled once and you quited before the end.

I insist on these minor details, because I don't want people to have the wrong impression about the character necro, not particularly yours.

Necro is an interesting character, but it's power is mainly in the means considered "bad manner" by lots of people. Without using any +max resis, decrepify, clay golem, bone prison, I am sure fireball sorc, blizzard sorc, replenish charger, bowzon, ww barb, fury druid can beat necro. Trapper have chance too even without using mindblast, but most likely be a stalemate. Of course, all builds are refered to the near perfect builds played by skillful player, hmm like when I am playing my chars.

I am not against any of these "BM" means, I consider them the necessary means for necro in a battle. However, vs most worth dueling opponents, necro is either a total winner with "BM" or a total loser without. There's rarely a fair duel a necro can have except for vs another necro, or lightning sorc. Total winning or losing are both boring to me. That's why I don't play my necro that often although it's very good and I am fairly good at it.

Prove me wrong please, I really want to like necro more. If you don't have necro gears atm, I can lend you mine.

Nonetheless, necro is a powerful char, when it go "BM", I think only a "BM" lightning sorc, or a "BM" bowzon could beat it, and not always.

[defeated]

I'm not sure if you can really say there is one single best LLD character. Like high level dueling, some characters matchup better against other characters, and some characters can not EVER beat other builds that are built and played correctly. Of course, playing style/aggressiveness (or lack thereof) can determine the outcome of matchups as well.

I rank them as follows just as overall.

Passive style (waiting for person to attack and run)
1. Necro
2. Assassin
3. Blizz sorc

Aggressive style (attacking the person running)
1. Hammerdin and/or Charger
3. Fire sorc / Cold Sorc
2. Barbarian

Because of the playing styles, its tough to group them together. A Necro and Trapper play very differently in terms of the way in which the duel compared to a Hammerdin or Fire Sorc and thus should not be included in the same category. In terms of overall winning percentage, probably Necro is #1, but it totally depends on the way in which the person duels.

[Chronotrigger]

u r all forgeting that it is SKILL AND KNOW HOW OF GAME that makes a good dueler not build cuz when u both good and got good gear its skill and know how that is thediciding factor i personly hate hammerdins thy r boring and the spirit over powered then tremendusly but no ones right or rong its just a game for rock papper siccer

be gracus in the face of deafet

[Belarathon]

everyone here is assuming the 100% best geared character by the most skilled player available to play them. nobody forgot that...

[DarkMousy]

My light sorc (regearing her now) with near PERFECT (I could have thrown on some more 70/15s but yeah...) 117 fcr bp gear and about 3.5k mana, over 1k life, 86 fhr bp, and a point into ts, decent rep life, only hit 3.4k light damage. To break 4k damage, you need a 2/20 orb, and that's sacrificing a frame of lightning casting. Lightning already casts slow enough, the higher frame outweighs the damage in almost all situations. This means you have to use spirit + visc or the orb + wall of the eyeless... Also, now since charge synergies are no longer effective, assuming a perfect orb with 2 lightning skills/+3 lightning/+3 mastery/+TS, I'm pretty sure it is impossible to break 5k damage. With this near impossible orb, you get about 4.6k dmg. On a more realistic 2/20/3 orb, assuming you either forego ts or the orb has ts inherently, you barely hit 4.1k dmg. IMO I'd rather stick at 3.4k damage and have the extra casting frame, but that's just me O_o.

Also, cs zons are up there if you know how to legitly sh!thead (farcast) cs. You're missing the ability to tele/poke, but a good legit farcaster only needs a fraction of a second on your screen to get a namelock and cast.

[Jeebus]

Chrono, do you actually type like that, or are you just joking?

[defeated]

I think everyone has to admit though, a good bone necro probably is truly the best overall PvP LLD character. With the best gear possible and the most skilled player, a good bone necro has an extreme advantage over every single character that cannot teleport, because of the bone prison skill. So given that a necro can own every character that can't tele, that only leavse Necro vs. sorc and that is a tough call. But the problem is unlike the bone necro, sorcs have problems vs. trappers, hammerdins, chargers, some barbs, etc. So you have to give it up to the necro. I think when figuring out which character is the best overall LLD, its really easiest to just figure out who wins vs. the most different matchups, and that determines the winner.

[DarkMousy]

If we're talking all out BM (minus juvs of course), then i'd have to say bone necro takes it. Decrep + bone prison deals with most of the lld world, and elemental characters can be stacked against/sorbed.

[Chronotrigger]

jeebus its a combination of lazzyness lack of sleep and loose grasp on the grammer if u truely got a problem dont read it rem im not origonly from usa so cut me some slack