LLD101

[Jerkazoid]

[meitou]

I have an idea vs range char.
MB-WoF(LS)-DF-MB-WoF-DT-MB-WoF-DT-MB-WoF...and so on...

Try to keep them under stun all the time, totally just imagination though, and you need more mana than regular build for this.

[ThatGuy]

On a kicker? O_o

That would mean big mana cost, much much less kick damage, low fcr, extremly low WoF damage, lower everything basically...

Only improvement is you look flashier with traps+MB

Trap assassin I understand, but lightning I think would do better.

I bet you just want to try this build because you like the way you can teleport onto people 2 screens away

Have fun if you try it.

[meitou]

about same kick damage, casting speed of WoF depends on IAS, not FCR. Low WoF damage, but who care about that, it's only for stun. However, sadly, you can't DF from 2 screen away, you have to be in same screen.

[ThatGuy]

Even if you name lock and hold shift click?

Hmm that's weird...it works for teleport.

How would such low WoF damage stun someone effectively? And the mana problem also comes into play...If you keep going on with those MB and WoF and DF combos, you're gonna get shredded, and eventually: "Not enough mana."

If you go with this strategy, use the same build I recommended on page 12, or at least go with the dual sojs and an alternative ammy.

[Jerkazoid]

mana is a problem from Dflighitng.. id agree,, add to that pumped Mindblast for the stun and wof and its a bit...

well.. ud need that hell rush ofcourse, and some mana/life sc's

[meitou]

I did some tests recently:

1. Tiger Strike can not ignore blocking to charge up.

2. Tiger Strike charge always release at first kick of Dragon Talon(in the test I only used an asn with lvl 6, 2 kicks Draton Talon, but I safely assume since the charge can't stay to 2nd kick, it won't stay to 3rd, 4th, and 5th kicks)

3. Weapon Block always =0% when you are either Walking or Running.

[Jerkazoid]

i cant accept 3 as evidance against my previous thinking. id need u to be more specific about it.

test 2 on the other hand is just inconclusive, beileve me when i say it. Tiger strike charges can stay for multiple kicks. Sokker, Gassassy, and I use it ALL the time on ladder west.

1) most of us have tried the assasin and probably remeber that there are times we charged up without actually hitting an enemy. so im surprised,, but i could be wrong. please tell me more about this test.

2)sorry me, but your test does not disprove what us LLD kickers already know

3) weapons block clearly is stated to work at its full value while running.. whats going on?

EDIT: i ran around while a necro fired off teeth at me.. 12 shots,, 12 hits.. i walked same thing
i stand still i block about 1/2,,,,looks like weapons block might be utter crap.

i tried some more with melee.. seemed like i could block.. but it was very rare

did u test this with melee, foh and guided ?

[meitou]

[Jerkazoid]

if the charges did not remain circling while u performed the 10 sequences, then u didnt get the dmg added on all the kicks.

when testing these kick u took off the shield to ensure 95% hits?
Preicisly the problem!
The charge WILL release if the first kick hits, and therefore the followups got NO ed%

u must trust me that in practice the "bug" or feature works. (as noted on the other forums) as well as its GROSS dmg a kicker can achive with just luck.

let me explain even further:
i have a lvl 9 kicker, she does 50-90 dmg and has two kicks.
dmg is pathetic, it barelly moves the health bar on the vllds
she cannot kill any vlld with kicks, she must charge.

3 charges dmg = 300-500
if the charge releases on the first kick, it sucks... i do a decent single hit maybe 15% of their life, but overall crap dmg and must charge up again.

when i do start kicking and the charges have stayed beyond the first, second and even third set of attack,, we blantently watch the health bar drop as if i had good dmg on many kicks in a row. (bing!)

When we see 400 life character drop from full health to DEATH from about 8 kicks (only 4 kick attacks) in row after just the FIRST set of charges, then clearly the hypothesis is acurate. (this happens enough for me to realize, TS + kick is great on the lvl 9)

also i just tested Crushing
It ingnores sol runes -dr (only + dr% will work to lower)
the sol rune build still works (TY sokker) but crushing and open wounds can still be used (although i doubt its very effective)

[meitou]

I see your point about shield. Damn guess I didn't get you at the first place, I am eager to test that out now, hehe...that would be so cool...

[Jerkazoid]

Oh, I didnt say it before, but excellent job catching the Weapons block facts Mei'

atleast it helps when actually standing and fighting for spells, but that defeats the purpose of going agaisnt the range character in the first place!

apperntly a few people did know this..,, guess they liked to keep it to themselves or they got that "You never asked!" thing going on.

and the range 2 :clap: nice one Tguy


not to beat a discussion to death, but Mei' how would u explain these
1) i routinely have to level an assasin for lvl 8 imbue (i wkeep Khalims will), there are many times i notice i charge off a monster (such as a lil fallen) but obiviously did no dmg , hence a block (fallens do have some blocking) and consideing their life, each hit does a noticable amount and it clear that i missed was (blocked)

2) how is it that u can charge TS from a person standing just inside town if blocking or dmging are factors?

its not that i dont beileve your tests but im a lil surprised.. i was so positive blocking was not an issue, that was just my only explanation for charging so well with lvl 9's and why it was so hard to charge vs high def characters, but still possible (blocking would have just seriously lowered the chances way more and there are times i can charge on a lvl 30+ without hitting)

[ThatGuy]

To answer your question...though I'm not sure myself...could be another bug.

I think it's when your charge-up skill would have actually hit the person, but it didn't. So the person is standing in town, if they were outside and you hit them, you get your charge. Since there's no block animation in town, you get your charges quick, but not hitting the person; in other words the computer kinda thinks you're hitting the person, but you really aren't because they're on town. So I guess it kinda triggers the charge and no damage to the player in town at the same time.
As for not hitting a fallen, I'm pretty sure I know about that. Like I just said, your hit would have been deemed as a perfect successful hit. The reason it doesn't hit is because they are moving! In other words, your hits would be hits if they were standing still and/or within your range, but they move out of range so you don't hit them. The computer knows it would have been a hit, giving you that oh so needed charge.
You'll find the same thing fighting zons, as I've bet you've noticed frequently. You charge after zons with....let's say a barb...and you chase them. Your FRW is extremely fast, much faster than the zons. Anyone from this experience will realize how frustrating it is when zons run like crazy and you always chase after them and swing when they stop, but you never hit them. That's due to them running out of range.

This problem also happens with frenzy, maul, feral rage, other asn charge ups, etc etc...

That also explains getting no charge from blocks. Whenever someone blocks, the computer realizes you didn't hit them, therefore you get no charge. Hence, the fallen did not block, it just retreated out of range when you swung (for a hit).

Hope this helps Jerkazoid!

P.S. lol TGuy thats a cool name, kinda like T-BONE

[meitou]

I did the TS charge release test again with shield on(50% block in test to ensure both enough block and hits). Now I totally agree with Jerkazoid, the TS charge does stay for more than one Dragon Talon kicks, and it can be released multiple times before need to be recharged. As for the reason, I suspect it's like this, if the first kick of a Dragon talon was blocked by shield, it will stay there for the rest kicks in that dragon talon, and no matter the rest kicks in that dragon talon hit or not, the TS charge will stay there and pass to the next Dragon talon, and the circle start again.

In my test, D talon lvl 12 and 3 kicks, pvp damage without charge is about 28, with fully TS charge it would be about 140. Out of 16 dragon talons that I tested, 9 times TS charge passed to next D talon. And the damage were:
150 157
152 157
155 195
145 288 176

So in this tests, TS charge stayed there for most 3 D talons. Also note the damage number 288, that means the TS charge can release 2 times in 1 Dragon talon(and this is only 3 kicks, I would say way more chance to realsea 2-4 times in 1 dragon talon if it's a 5 kicks D talon).

So this is very true, thanks to Jerkazoid...and this is not for low lvl only, think about this, a high lvl kicker with 6 kicks D talon, lvl 30+ TS, and btw, she can use a 6 ETH phase blade to charge up her TS(or 2 3eth claw? that need a test)....damage would be evil....



As for the TS charge vs block, it's very solid if both standing still, TS can not ignor block. However, from my experience, if the defender is walking or running, assasin will have big chance getting a charge up by simply name lock swinging and missing. So you are right in this case, TS charge not only ignore block, seems it can also ignore...the position...anyway you got me, don't you? And this is a good news for possible high lvl kicker build, because you could probably charge up in no time on a ww barb, ww sin, or even a charge in and out charger.

I am sure there are more to discuss about this, let the fire start!

[cyriene]