LLD101

[SC[10]]

my lvl 30 fury druid does really good vs hammerdins, hes got 2.1k life and takes hammers long enough to kill em

[Belarathon]

I don;t know about that, meitou has the best lvl 30 fury druid I have ever seen, he;s even hell rushed, and he can kill dely's hammerdin about 40-60 (for hammerdin) but if I really try and pay attention on the hammerdin then I don;t think that he would win only 10%. Just because as long as the hammerdin makes no mistakes then it doesn;t get hit by a melee

[Ehhh]

Well, I have a hammerdin on west ladder like coatol (hi, it's MCHammer), and I don't lose to much except for good necros and trappers and occasionally chargers get lucky and kill me. I'm not hell rushed either.

I would imagine a Bowazon who knows how to switch to a shield should do well though. Bowzons have kb, irresistable dmg and dodge. I'm pretty sure a good zon who knows what she's doing can beat a hammerdin fairly easily.

Stupid hammerdins are pretty easy to beat. Just run in from the south and start whacking away. They won't move because they just don't know how to play.

Charge-moving desync hammerdins are a different story. You don't stand much of a chance against a good one if you're melee. I haven't lost to melee my level yet.

[Belarathon]

Am I the only one who thinks a hammerdin owns even a good bowzon if it plays right?

[Ehhh]

Well if you're playing by the rules of lld101 where offensive charging is not allowed, a hammerdin will have a very hard time touching a bowzon.

With offensive charging it's a different story...but generally if both are equally skilled, bowzons should kill hammerdins...

[just shdw]

my bowzon has never lost to a hammerdin, but then again she hasnt dueled any super dooper ones yet. but alot of them used charge to get near then hammer a bit then ran away. with 900 life and 2500+ psn dmg and 90% frw ive yet to duel a hammerdin that will give me a challenge.

[Ehhh]

Just the mechanics of the bowzons main attack skill makes her just as good if not better than a necro for the purpose of killing a good hammerdin.

Necros have spear or spirit. Spear is a fast straight line attack. Hard to hit a desync hammerdin with. Spirit is too slow to track a desync hammerdin. Advantage of the necro is unblockable, irresistable attack.

Bowazons have guided arrow. Faster than spirit, maybe a bit slower than spear, but tracks. They have dodge to dodge the occasional invisible hammer. They also have kb to knock the hammerdin into hit recovery and to keep him away.

I see no way a hammerdin could win at that matchup. Hammers are simply too easy to maneuver around. The only chance a hammerdin has is to try to make as many invisible hammer fields as possible and lure the zon into them.

[Phyre]

I wouldn't recomend a Bowzon if they are charger/hammer hybrids. No block = really bad against charge.

Instead, I'll echo what has already been said. Trappers, Sorcs, and Bone necros. All would have to be block builds.

The trapper would simply have to keep avoiding the hammerdin and keeping him MB'ed. He can charge out, but if he's charging out of MB then he's not attacking you. This will take awhile, but shouldn't be too terribly hard.

Sorcs you can simply teleport away from them and spam whatever spell you want. I would recomend going with a Fire sorc since dual Spirits will grant them alot of stacked res to negate cold mastery. With a good Warmth, ES, and Insight staff on switch if they start getting defensive you should be able to outlast them.

Necros with max block can deal with the charging aspect easily, throw up a bone wall between yourself and them if you need to. Prison, Decrep if need be. They can break down the Prison with a Hammer or two, but it will stop them for a second so they can get hit by the Bone Spirit train following them. They simply won't be able to stop moving unless they want to eat Spirits. The absorb from Spirit weapons will probably dent the Necro's damage about the same amount as the MDR on Skins and String. A perfect Skins and String will have 28 MDR total, meaning 168 damage off the listed damage. The absorb on a perfect Spirit weapon would be 8, 16 if they have a shield also. Assuming that removes roughly the same as the MDR, that's 336 damage off the listed damage of the necro's attack. When a good necro should be doing about 1k, it's not bad but certainly not negating the damage. It should be negating 56 of the 166 damage you are taking from 1k BS. About 1/3 of the damage.

[Hades]

Hmmm well then I think i will make a fire sorc, as most of these hammerdins use dual spirits/skins/ and string untill they need cbf which is very rarily when they have insight charge weapon. altho on second thoughts, i am sure these hammerdins have either ine of those fire resist boots, where as to try to improve ones cold resistance you would have to replace a better item of your inventory.. hmm darn these decisions >.<

[just shdw]

between fire ball and blizz sorc blizz sorc wins, becuase even if there godly llf hammer pally who uses charge well to get near you all you do is blizz on top of you and tele behind him, he will have an insanely hard time trying to hit you, even with charge

[cat_funt]

[Ehhh]

Liberator has one way of dealing with trappers, and that is to charge them. All the lib has to do is have some jewelry to stack up to max light resist on charge switch and charge her to death.

[prophet_of_doom]

bone necro, fire trapper +mb, good tornado druid> hammerdin

[MysticFalcon182]

[Belarathon]

I think that the best hammerdin beats the best tornado druid in lld. I went on Delybrio's hammerdin and I was dueling a few of the tornado druids on it, and some mld ones too, and I didn't lose at all, it's just because a hammerdin can get in and out so quickly that they don;t get hit, and they canj ust rely on the fact that after awhile, a lot of the places the wind druid will try to run, will be spammed with hammers, and eventually the druid will be hit. It a lot depends on how well the hammerdin duels.

Trapper beats hammerdin basically everytime if it just keeps an eye on where the hammers are, and always has traps near her, then just MB him when he comes on your screen. Something I like to do vs most casters is cast 5 traps in any spot (more useful if it's right beside a pothole or a rock) and then run in a perfectly straight line away from the traps, and then when the caster comes up in front of you, you just mb lock them, (you'll probably take a hit or 2 but it;s worth it) and then at first it's just mbing them, nothing big, but it eventually knocks them back right into the traps and they are stunned, and if you cvasted them beside a pothole, then they will never get kb'd out of the traps either, cause it will just be kb'ing them into the pothole/rock etc. It's a good way to take the casters by surprise. I don't think hammerdin/charge hybrid can beat a trapper anymore than a hammerdin alone can. On hfcx' trapper I dueled the level 35 charger with 2k-8k dmg, with guillaumes on, to boot. And we only dueled once and he did beat me but he only had like 20 life left. and he is a pure charger, if a pure charger who has used his charger for over a year can only do that well, I can only imagine that someone without pure charge dmg skills and items wouldn't do aswell. I guess it also depends on the assassin too, I was standing in the middle of a bunch of potholes to tryand screw him at at the start so that I would have ample time to get an MB lock on him.

I'm pretty sure that a good hammerdin could beat a good bowzon in lld, because (at least on Dely's hammerdin) you can outcharge a GA, so if they get a lock on you just charge far away till it's gone. I would say that a bowzon with KB stands a really good chance and can beat a hammerdin. But without KB I just really think the hammerdin will win.

Bone necro will beat a hammerdin if he uses bone walls to protect himself, if not, a good hammerdin can get in there and kill him if he positions himself correctly, but even without bonewalls necro will win sometimes too.

Sorceress should be pretty good vs hammerdin but it depends how defensive they play, and if the hammerdin decides to use the invisible charge bug. All a sorceress has to do is play really defensive and it won;t ever get hit, but when I was dueling 2fat's fire sorc on dely's hammerdin it seemed that any duel I decided to use invisible charge bug, I would win, and if I decided not to use it, then it would come out 50-50 or so. Blizz sorc might be better, depend son theh ammerdin and sorc's playing style, and with hawkmail a hammerdin can last in blizz a pretty long time.

I can;t remember any of the other classes discussed in this thread so I guess that is all that I have.