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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion
Why is dodge lock such an issue at level 18?
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Torrent


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject:  Why is dodge lock such an issue at level 18?
Subject description: Compared to vLLD		  
Is there a reason dodge lock "prohibits" zons from using dodge against zealers or w/e melee character? Seems to me dodge is what would make a jabber better than a zealot.

Maybe I should make this make a little more sense...

At 18 it seems that jabbers arent built with any points in dodge. Why is that?
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Last edited by Torrent on Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PainofSmite

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject:  
i havent played d2 for a while, just got back...if my memory serves me right it is because dodge lock locks you into dodgeing...if your dodgeing you cant be attacking too...to which point its just a matter of time before you get hit (while at the same time having no chance of hitting them). I may be wrong and im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.
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Torrent


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject:  
Well I know what dodge lock does, but is it gauranteed to happen at higher lvls than vLLD because other chars (like zealots) attack fast? There's kickers in vLLD too, which are faster already...

And lol, you answered right when I was editing -.-
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I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
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FudGe


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject:  
PainofSmite wrote:
i havent played d2 for a while, just got back...if my memory serves me right it is because dodge lock locks you into dodgeing...if your dodgeing you cant be attacking too..


This is correct. Dodge puts you into mock FHR animation.

I've tested this extensively on SP, and a no-dodge build is far superior to a dodge build.
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject:  
D/A/E checked before block. not sure on the normal hit-check order though, i would assume its after, but thats just design experience, not test/code facts
that is bad news for 12+ once the zons goes toe to toe with other viable multi hitters (zealots)

it works on Vlld bc the zon is the typical multi hit class (kicker being less powerfull typically). uniterptible etc, 50% more hits in the volley. and that level has better defense values vs ar
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meitou

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject:  
FudGe wrote:
PainofSmite wrote:
i havent played d2 for a while, just got back...if my memory serves me right it is because dodge lock locks you into dodgeing...if your dodgeing you cant be attacking too..


This is correct. Dodge puts you into mock FHR animation.

I've tested this extensively on SP, and a no-dodge build is far superior to a dodge build.


Vouch on that.

My 18 bowzon has dodge at about 40%, in melee duels vs jabber/zealer it can barely attack at all. For example vs another lvl18 jabber with only 18% dodge, the jabber landed about 2-3 times more hits on me than I did to him, although we have similiar AR/Defense/full block. So my higher dodge% is the only reason for that.
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Torrent


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject:  
Do you think a low % dodge could be better than no dodge?
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I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject:  
Torrent wrote:
Do you think a low % dodge could be better than no dodge?


the benefit of avoiding 1 hit at the cost of having an attack volley stopped/interrupted for a solid 8 frames is technically known as "sucking"

0% dodge imo Smile

im sure one could make a graph that shows the avg dmg avoided vs avg dmg lost and figure some mathematical benefit at 1-xx%
but <shrug> i failed that math
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meitou

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:47 am    Post subject:  
Torrent wrote:
Do you think a low % dodge could be better than no dodge?


IMO don't make jabber at all.
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FudGe


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject:  
meitou wrote:
FudGe wrote:
PainofSmite wrote:
i havent played d2 for a while, just got back...if my memory serves me right it is because dodge lock locks you into dodgeing...if your dodgeing you cant be attacking too..


This is correct. Dodge puts you into mock FHR animation.

I've tested this extensively on SP, and a no-dodge build is far superior to a dodge build.


Vouch on that.

My 18 bowzon has dodge at about 40%, in melee duels vs jabber/zealer it can barely attack at all. For example vs another lvl18 jabber with only 18% dodge, the jabber landed about 2-3 times more hits on me than I did to him, although we have similiar AR/Defense/full block. So my higher dodge% is the only reason for that.


My jabber was built to be anti-zealot, hence why I went 0%dodge. My jabber relies on an amp proc from my javs, so the more I attach, the better chance I have. Overall, I prefer a 0%dodge vs all classes/builds on a jabber.
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