LLD101

PigletIX · Joined: 10 Oct 2004 Posts: 156 0.00 Silvarrr

hey, meitous STRATEGY (it is a strategy) is somewhat cheap.. but cmon wasnt eveyrone getting tired of dsamn tssin, sacadin, jaczon,kicker.. he came up wiht somethign TOTALLY new... and ive said it before i worship his lvl 9.. and the slow golem seems just kinda unfair... but running and recasting bone armor.. i mean cmon if he doesnt the nec is totally INEFFECTIVE... so making the tsin ineffective against well thats the point of new builds... but i cant wait for this toureny..

meitou · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1661 4.11 Silvarrr

Rampage · Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject:

We have already had this "debate" in another thread. When I said that the rules and format were open for discussion I meant that the stuff for this particular tourney were open for discussion. I did not mean that we would argue about whether a build is fair or not.

Meitou can your Necro compete if you are not allowed to use your "pet"?
That would still leave you Amp, Bone armor (recasted) and Sac.
If it can or you want to give it a try then I hope you will enter and use whatever strategy you have to use (except slow) to win.

Now, are there any ideas on any other part of the tourney that has been laid out for your critque?

meitou · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1661 4.11 Silvarrr

First, I don't see any reason not to allow pet or merc, except for the clay golem. Even for the clay golem, a high defense build with single target attack, such as a shout/bash barb, or a defiance/sac pally, could very possibly go through the whole duel without being affected by it. Even for those low defense or multi attack type, let's say a jabber, you can still throw something to kill it.

-No Potting of any kind. (participants may be required to show their belts in the trade window just prior to a match)
-No using shrines of any sort.
-No killing monsters for life or mana steal or any other reason.
-No returning to town before duel has ended. Doing so will cause forfeit.
-No spectating by non participants.
-Equipment may be adjusted between duels if done so in 20 seconds or less

As for the rules, I think it's all good and I have a few suggestions.

1. Duel in Nightmare(even Hell), that alone will give lvl9 casters chance.
2. Since it's Nightmare, clear the dueling area in advance by a high lvl.
3. Showing the belt before duel is required. If you don't do it, then don't bitch something like "I think he used mana pots".
4. Or just allow using mana pots. (not a good idea to my opinion but an option to save some troubles)
5. As for cleg glove, I am not sure, but from my dueling experience, it's not a big deal. If you use it, you lose bloodfist or death glove. I won't use it, but I would allow it.
6. Any duel should be limited to 3 or 5 minutes maximum. It's a draw if no one died in this given time. One exception is, the one who constantly running to avoid dueling, loses.

That's what I can think of atm.

Rampage · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

The main problem with pets and Mercs especially is that not everyone can have them, The reason for pets is obvious. Some classes don't have pets. And slow whether it is from clegs or a golem is just not good for duels. It effects some builds terribly and others not so much but either way it is impossible to counter. The reason I don't think Mercs should be allowed is fairly simple. Some of the newer VLLDers are struggling to outfit one character in order to compete. Guys like me, Redawg, B[x] and probably you already have a lot of spare gear or have Mercs that we use in pubbie games just for fun. I have a Act2 Merc with 3 socket ETH armor, Biggins and Eth Dimoak Hew. He does around 225 max damage has 100 life, 275 defense and has killed noob level 15-20s by himself. I don't want to discourage all the newer duelers by making it even more expensive for them to compete. Maybe including Mercs in a future tourney would be fun but for now I would rather just get everyone involvled.

Your other points are interesting. I would like some feedback on the Nightmare idea.

I thought about the time limit but I was thinkng more about like one minute. The only problem is that if one person simply runs for the whole time or just at the end he can avoid a loss and maybe get a draw. I don't know I will have to give this some thought. In the preliminaries everyone has to duel 15 times or more if we get a full field. I want to make this interesting and an "event" without making it tedious.

I don't like the idea of allowing mana potting for one reason. To make a proper build it is a balancing act to get everything right. It takes skill and thought to find the right amount of str, dex, life and mana. Compromises have to be made to make it work. The trick is to find the "sweet" spot where the character just works near perfect. That is skill and planning. Now, if you can avoid any one aspect of the build and compensate for a shortcoming by potting then there is much less skill involved and you have a distinct advantage over someone who has made those compromises and balanced their build to be self contained. By making competitors show their belts you are forcing them to hide pots (if they choose to use them) in their inventory at the expense of charms. Therefore, you have forced them to make a compromise.

This got us a little off the topic but hopefully everyone understands my thinking for some of the rules I have suggested.

I would like to hear more comments. I will begin sign up this weekend and continue with the plannig for the qualifying rounds and the finals. For sign ups I will ask for acct names and character names and class. For exaple: Lilduelersz3-HoliMoli-Sacadin. The reason for this is twofold. First I want to know who is interested and going to compete. Second, I want everyone to see the competition and have the oppurtunity to prepare for the various builds.

LOCRIAN]oL[ · Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 0.00 Silvarrr

Sup guys just a post ta say im in. Win lose or draw this should prove fun for all with it being set up so all get a chance to duel. As I've only met a few of you vllds this also provides a chance to finally meet some of vllds of whom I've been reading post the past few weeks.

Good Luck to All
Loc

2fat · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:38 am Post subject:

i say let meitou use his golem but not be able to resumon...i mean get a stack of javs lol

Santa · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:20 am Post subject:

i think that meitou's strategy is fine. if a character has a skill, let them use it. he should be able to cast bone armor as many times as he wants and also he should be able to make his golem as much as he wants. not letting him use bone armor and his golem is just like telling a barb "no u cant use shout". its a skill that the class has. if you have a problem with his golem hitting you dont let it. move off to the side and throw a jav at it. how much life could it possibly have? 50, 75? it does not give anyone an unfair advantage. if you think it is unfair you should find some way to counter it. put javs on your second wepon. nobody with any sense is going to just sit there when a TS sin is kicking at u w/ 3 charges. when he runs from you, throw javs at him.

meitou · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1661 4.11 Silvarrr

matic_random · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:51 am Post subject:

maybe not right place but it be fun having all geared up merc duel tourney,lolz just idea since u mentioned merc's sowwy if i make ramp mad about posting it here,but just idea

Rampage · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject:

Nah Matic it doesn't make me mad that you posted that. In fact Redawg and I have dueled our Mercs against each other before. It is fun to watch.

Meitou. True, even a godly Merc is no match for a VLLD but they are a distraction and a savvy dueler can use them as a shield while he deals damage. I found out while dueling you that you could hit me through the Golem but i could not hit you. Another pet that has an effect in a duel? Try skellies. They are weak as hell but again they can be used as a shield and wolves might be the same way. Honestly I don't care one way or the other but you made the point yourself that they are worthless so why bother allowing them? And in the interest of time I am considering having more than one duel going on at the same time. The Mercs and pets could be off getting involved in other peoples duels unless we take the time to hostile every opponent individually. If I count correctly the qualifying rounds will be composed of around 104 duels. Obviously, I dont need anything additional to slow things down.

I worked out the qualifying rounds today but I don't have them handy. I will post them tomorrow night.

Oh by the way, it cost 15 mana to cast the clay golem and you casted it a couple times and recasted bone armor three times in one of our sparring sessions. That was when I asked you if you were mana potting and you told me "no". I was amazed that you had enough mana to do that.

meitou · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1661 4.11 Silvarrr

If a merc/pet is worthless, why bother banning them?
If a merc/pet is useful, by any chance, for whatever char to use them, that is one more good reason to allow them.

But, you made a good point about the time issue. Yeah in that case, stupid merc/pet would be a problem going after the wrong ass...I agree they should be banned if the tourney will be done that way. But, I still think bitching about anyone's merc/pet in 1 on 1 duel is noobish and narrow minded.

My golem cost 30mana, bone armor cost 25 mana. I had enough to cast a few times vs you, because I had about 100 mana and 12% DTM. Also your jabber deals relatively low damage, comparing to other type of chars, so I had time to let mana regenerate.

All I have said are what I feel right about vlld or lld, nothing to do with my own chars. Most likely I won't join the tourney anyway Razz

I just don't like the way how usually people have their tourneys, ban things sometimes just to give themselve advantages. Your rule sets are not like that and I respect you, I really wish you can have a most versatile and creative tourney in vlld history, hehe Very Happy

Rampage · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:53 am Post subject:

Yeah I know you are talking VLLD in general more than this specific tournament. I am trying to be fair and keep things organized so the tournament will move forward at a good pace. I will be disappointed if you do not enter with a character of some type but of course that is your decision and I respect that. I am sure that I will have ample oppurtunities to duel Whitehouse in pubbie games and I am looking forward to beating him Wink

.

If this tourney is a success I may attempt to stage different ones in the future with a more open ruleset. Honestly my personnal belief has always been that if it is a level 9 or lower skill or item it should be legal. The only problem is that may not be good for a tournament due to the logostics of having 16 or more duelers competing at the same time.

Whether you decide to enter or not I have appreciated your contribution to this discussion.

Rampage · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:03 am Post subject:

Here is the Layout of the tournament. Each participant will keep the number they get when the sign up to compete and use it to go into the proper game during the qualifying round. The top 8 qualifiers will them get assigned new numbers for the final round. Everyone will duel everyone else one time in the qualifying round. That means that if there are 16 duelers entered then everyone will duel 15 times. The 8 players with the highest number of wins will advance to the final round. In order to expedite the qualifying duels there will be two games running simulutaneously ( Games 1 & 2 then 3 & 4 then 5 & 6 ). One person in each game will act as referee to keep things moving along smoothly.

QUALIFYING ROUNDS SINGLE DUEL

GAME #1____GAME#3_____ GAME#5________GAME#7
1___________1____________1___________ TIE BREAKER IF NEEDED
2___________2____________2
3___________3____________3
4___________4____________4
5___________9____________13
6___________10___________14
7___________11___________15
8___________12___________16

GAME #2____GAME#4______GAME#6
9___________5_____________5
10__________6_____________6
11__________7_____________7
12__________8_____________8
13__________13____________9
14__________14___________10
15__________15___________11
16__________16___________ 12

FINAL ROUND ( 8 TOP SCORES ) BEST OF 3 ROUND ROBIN

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

The finals will start with the top qualifier dueling #2 then #3 then #4 etc. Next #2 will duel #3 then #4 etc. We will continue until #7 just duels #8 to complete the cycle. Best of three.
The Championship round will consist of the dueler with the highest number of wins against the second highest number and third and fourth will also duel. All these duels will be a best of five.

Rampage · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:06 am Post subject:

SIGN UPS ARE NOW OFFICIALLY OPEN!

If you want a "lucky" number ask for it otherwise I will assign them in the order you sign up.

Don't forget. I need account name....name of character......type of character.

1. Lilduelersz........LilKira_Sin.........JavaZon
2. tehub3r_1337....Phemonia?........Sacadin?
3. 3stMuskatier......?????????..........TS Assassin
7. 3stMuskatier......?????????..........Sacadin
8. B[x].................??????????.........?????????
9. Lilduelersz3.......Lil_HoliMoli........Sacadin
10.Redawg53.........??????????.........???????
13.Locrian]ol[.........XXSINS.............Ts Assassin
16.3Redawg53........?????????..........???????