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Chronotrigger
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:06 am Post subject:
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wfg-dude dont jump the gun bro...
ok first off read above where thy state if u wana kill casters/runners put one in charge
thats when i sed dont do it save the points and get a war septer with charge skill on swich(wich is easy enuf to get)
and im not talking about scewing frends for lld items im talking about trading a non lld who values them not and getting it for cheap
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wfg-dude
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:24 am Post subject:
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| Chronotrigger wrote: | wfg-dude dont jump the gun bro...
ok first off read above where thy state if u wana kill casters/runners put one in charge
thats when i sed dont do it save the points and get a war septer with charge skill on swich(wich is easy enuf to get)
and im not talking about scewing frends for lld items im talking about trading a non lld who values them not and getting it for cheap |
I didnt see the post on charge...and I didnt understand what you were saying...so srry on that one.
And, I didn't mean to imply u screwed anyone... I just gave my rule of thumb. Yes...cheap is GOOD!
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skulls
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:
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as far as the charms go?? all life/ar if poss?.. will a few life/str or def to go along with ar really hurt at lvl 18..also ive seen a couple of good defiance pallys..their extra life seems to help them alot..brings to mind a defiance pali that was consistantly beating a might pali w 9 duped 15/20s..or is zeal really that random?..comments??
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when is this thread closing?
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wfg-dude
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:16 am Post subject:
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Unless the build is defiance then defense on a charm seems sorta useless IMO. I dunno bout duped sc's but 8 defense is the most u can get on an sc x 40 = 320 defense. Only changes the CTH by less than 1%.
AR and LIFE = not good! And Str = Life. Now the type of charms you use will differ depending on the weapon u use. If you use a war scepter...ask Knarl. If you use a clegs... ask atomicman (east) or knifer (west).
You can find good starter charms/jewels in one season or less. To find elite's may take a year or more IMO. The right war scepter is considered "elite" in my book because you need the right mods to beat a clegs which is easily found.
So, zealots are not always as cookie cutter once you move past this thread and start trying to build an elite dueler. After a year of trading/mf'ing I'm still 11 items away from being able to challenge #1 spot  
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Elusive
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:01 am Post subject:
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most scepter users wont use max/ar/life or str gcs. those are utilized by cleg ones.
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krajee
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:07 am Post subject:
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| wfg-dude wrote: | | Unless the build is defiance then defense on a charm seems sorta useless IMO. I dunno bout duped sc's but 8 defense is the most u can get on an sc x 40 = 320 defense. Only changes the CTH by less than 1%. |
A character with 8000 attack rating against a 200 defense character has a 95% chance to hit
A character with 8000 attack rating against a 520 defense character has a 94% chance to hit.
Yep, it changes the chance to hit by around 1%.
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ATOMICMAN
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:36 am Post subject:
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well considering no lvl 18 pally will have 8k ar it will be much more of a difference
2.5k ar with 200 def = 92% chance to hit
2.5k ar with 520 def = 79% chance to hit
13% change
most lvl 18 pallies will have anywhere from 1.5k - 2.5k ar
but if you go with a pure defensive pally you can get up to around 4.8k def with perfect gear which for the average pally is about 35% chance to hit or less
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krajee
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject:
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| ATOMICMAN wrote: | | well considering no lvl 18 pally will have 8k ar it will be much more of a difference |
But he said 1%!
I suggest to most people to stick a point into conc because you get a 5%ar bonus and the option to use blessed aim (if needed). The damage loss isn't that significant, but if you're going to make a serious dueler, keep in mind how many defense builds are around.
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wfg-dude
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject:
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| Gheed wrote: | | ATOMICMAN wrote: | | well considering no lvl 18 pally will have 8k ar it will be much more of a difference |
But he said 1%!
I suggest to most people to stick a point into conc because you get a 5%ar bonus and the option to use blessed aim (if needed). The damage loss isn't that significant, but if you're going to make a serious dueler, keep in mind how many defense builds are around. |
You really think someone is going to fill their inventory with 40 15life/8defense sc's?
I did my math wrong when I did the cth I input my current defense around 250 and then entered 320 (total of sc's  ) which =
90.9 vs. 88.6 = around 2% but I was in a hurry to type and made TWO mistakes. Andy...as usual...you are an icon of correctness 
either way...I still say I would prefer to fill my stash with life/ar sc's over defense as a second mod UNLESS I had a defiance build. By the way do these defense builds duel in USWNL arena? I'm interested to see them and perhaps copy their build 
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Elusive
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject:
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a true defensive build would have to take a major hit in speed and probably a bit of damage/ar in order to have high enough defense for it to even make a difference.
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krajee
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject:
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| wfg-dude wrote: | | either way...I still say I would prefer to fill my stash with life/ar sc's over defense as a second mod UNLESS I had a defiance build. By the way do these defense builds duel in USWNL arena? I'm interested to see them and perhaps copy their build |
No, these defense builds do not currently duel in the west arena.
| Elusive wrote: | | a true defensive build would have to take a major hit in speed and probably a bit of damage/ar in order to have high enough defense for it to even make a difference. |
My 18 barb has 3kar, 2kdef, 800max conc @11 frames, and 800 life. With a new item that I just acquired, I can remake to increase everything. The barb can compete with characters such as Knifer's and Knarl's zealers (who have pretty good stuff compared to the barb's 15maxes and 14lifers).
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Elusive
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:01 am Post subject:
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| Gheed wrote: |
My 18 barb has 3kar, 2kdef, 800max conc @11 frames, and 800 life. With a new item that I just acquired, I can remake to increase everything. The barb can compete with characters such as Knifer's and Knarl's zealers (who have pretty good stuff compared to the barb's 15maxes and 14lifers). |
i meant defensive zealots, i know that good 18 concers can go toe to toe with zealers.
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krajee
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am Post subject:
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| Elusive wrote: | | i meant defensive zealots, i know that good 18 concers can go toe to toe with zealers. |
Ah ok. My defensive zealot has maybe...600def, 2200ar, 900max zeal and 900 life. It can perform against the regular zealers (plain 15maxes, plain charms), but against ones with better stuff.....eh. I was thinking of putting my top notch charms onto that character to see how well it would do, but I doubt I would get a noticable difference. However, with good charms AND jewels, I believe that a defensive zealer would be able to compete.
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Elusive
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:18 am Post subject:
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| Gheed wrote: | | Elusive wrote: | | i meant defensive zealots, i know that good 18 concers can go toe to toe with zealers. |
Ah ok. My defensive zealot has maybe...600def, 2200ar, 900max zeal and 900 life. It can perform against the regular zealers (plain 15maxes, plain charms), but against ones with better stuff.....eh. I was thinking of putting my top notch charms onto that character to see how well it would do, but I doubt I would get a noticable difference. However, with good charms AND jewels, I believe that a defensive zealot would be able to compete. |
compete maybe but i seriously doubt it would win more than 50% of the time but id love to see one prove me wrong. zolas has a 19 concer on east that my 18 zealer has trouble with and i believe that a well-made concer (same jewels/charms as a good 18 zealer) would be able to win ~50% vs zealers
conc > def zeal in terms of a defensive melee for 18.
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krajee
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:22 am Post subject:
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| Elusive wrote: | | conc > def zeal in terms of a defensive melee for 18. |
Yea, thats why my def zeal has piss poor charms, lol. It's a fun build to see the pubs go "wtf I cant hit", but other than that, eh.
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Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion
