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The time now is Tue May 28, 2024 9:04 pm All times are UTC - 8 |
 Forum index » Off-Topic Section » Off-Topic Discussion |
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An Edgy Proposition! *Edited the argument requirements!*
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| Page 1 of 6 [87 Posts] | Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next |
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SoaringSquirrel
 Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549  0.00 Silvarrr |
I'm feeling ambitious tonight. I contend that I have sufficient evidence that negates the existence of God (in the Biblical sense) beyond a believable degree. However, since I am not the one making a positive claim, I will supply this argument in response to a good argument to either believe in God's existence or for the actual probability of his existence. I revoke my request for the limitation of arguments; any argument is welcome, so long as it is logical/rational and has one or more acceptible premises. So if you say "faith", describe why faith is a compelling reason to believe in God, not just a tautology that, "You should believe in the Bible because of faith. You should have faith because the Bible says so." Now that that's over with... Lez go! Disclaimer: It should be noted that I am not, by any means, implying that someone who subscribes to the Christian faith is less intelligent or rational than a non-theist. I just would like to see how this discussion goes, in fact largely due to the my observation that there are plenty of intelligent theists on these fora. _________________ 
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.  Last edited by SoaringSquirrel on Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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DiPLOMAT
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 1644 12.37 Silvarrr |
what do u have against god? _________________  |
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549 0.00 Silvarrr |
Reason for one. Occam's razor for two. He sent Nietzsche to Hell for three. _________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor. |
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Waramp
 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 4788 0.59 Silvarrr |
he sent nietzsche to hell, yet he doesnt exist?! :O btw, you forgot reason #4: he's clearly BM _________________ 
http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showuser=246043 |
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549 0.00 Silvarrr |
waramp stop calling me out you jerk! 
Vouch for reason #4. For those who disagree, read the Book of Job. YSO JUMP, ALMIGHTY? _________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor. |
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Waramp
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 4788 0.59 Silvarrr |
haha, sorry SS. i guess its just one of my undesirable traits
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http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showuser=246043 |
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gameshow_man
 Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 252 BNet Acct/Realm: usa east ladder<*thundercats_ho> 0.00 Silvarrr |
i would say all the variation of the said "bible" is enough reason to not belive its real... theres like what 3 diff versions of the bible; kingjames, new testament, niv.. not to mention all the diffrent churches that vary belifs, if he did indeed exist wouldnt he be a little mad with everyones liency on diffrent subject that are clearly stated in the bible and not do anything about it... and another good one... mormons.. claiming that there was more of the bible that only they can read.. i call shennangains on that one. _________________ i have trust in you , until you prove that you are a retard |
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549 0.00 Silvarrr |
gameshow - to an extent, yes. However, if one reads the Bible holistically, one can make sense of the apparent inconsistencies. Nevertheless, that does not make them true; just because we start with a conclusion and attempt to justify it, it does not mean the connections drawn are valid. Corollary: the Law of Fives. _________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor. Last edited by SoaringSquirrel on Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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gameshow_man
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 252 BNet Acct/Realm: usa east ladder<*thundercats_ho> 0.00 Silvarrr |
ill give ya that. i use to go to church and whatnot, and ive read the bible, and the mormon bible, and to put them both together is just sillyness. and if you go by the bible as a whole it allows so many loopholes for people to use to justify it, it makes it sad. and the number one excuss for god not doing what he says i the bible. " he has a plan for everything" " god allows it to happen" and my favorite " god works in mysterious way" or what about god doesnt work at all becuase hes not there, so he doesnt allow suffering to happen, it just happens. becuase if you go by the almighty ten commandments, there should be alot of dead people. but wait, there isnt.. hmmm.. and you ake a good point ss. 
_________________ i have trust in you , until you prove that you are a retard |
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Belarathon
 Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl 0.00 Silvarrr |
On an amusing sidenote, I had an extremely hardcore Christian messaging me for about 60 minutes straight the other night on D2 because my char name was Serge. He said something about how Serge is a jewish name and that I will burn in hell just like all the other "mud faces" and that he can 100% prove that the bible is the 100% truth by one simple fact: that the bible does not contradict itself. I'm not sure if the bible actually does contradict itself or not, but even if it doesn't at all, I don't see how one could use that as 100% proof that the bible is 100% true, lol. He continued to make blatantly racist comments as I was telling him that I use a bible to hold up my wobbly table and I roll joints out of bible pages. Finally, just to get a laugh I started calling him a non-believer and saying that God is going to send him to hell and stuff just for a change of pace and whatnot, and then he started saying that I was acting all tough but then I realized that Jesus is gonna pwn me and I am scared so I am trying to convert myself right now on the spot and I won't be forgiven. I told him I worship the Buddha to see what he would say and he said "rofl kid you worship a fat chink who cant even support his own weight rather than an all knowing al powerful being?" It was truly unbelievable how stubborn and annoying he was. There's way more I could type of what he said but I'm getting annoyed just remembering it. |
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gameshow_man
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 252 BNet Acct/Realm: usa east ladder<*thundercats_ho> 0.00 Silvarrr |
lol sounds like more proof of the average christian..claiming he and his people are better than everyone else. _________________ i have trust in you , until you prove that you are a retard |
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl 0.00 Silvarrr |
Yeah, if there's one thing that turns me off from (most) Christians it's their stubborn way of thinking that not only is their's the only path, but also that they find the need to make fun of the other paths. My friend invited me to this Christian winter camp when I was in grade 9... it sounded fun (and it was fun), so I went. 90% of the day we could go around and do whatever we wanted... go skiing, snowboarding, snowmobiling, play basketball in the gym, etc. 10% of the day we listened to sermons and stuff. The guy was actually hilarious. Most of the time I was laughing my ass off, he was really a showman... But once he got right into the religious stuff, he did the same thing as the D2 guy... he was making fun of the other religions. People were laughing too! He could be asking us how could people possibly worship a guy so fat that he can't even move and basically just poking fun at all of the other religions however he could and people were laughing a lot. It was still a fun weekend, I did win the rock paper scissors tournament out of over 500 people afterall... But that sort of thing really bothers me. |
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549 0.00 Silvarrr |
You and Dao always have the best stories, Bel. I am tickled and honored that he would think Buddha to be Chinese; I am sure any of my Chan/Huayan Buddhist countrymen would be delighted to use his last comment as evidence for Buddha's Chinese ethnicity.
"It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this atheist was, like, dancing with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with him. For fifteen minutes. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and... this incredibly indifferent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Forum posts's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much irony in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my <3's going to cave in." five pence to who can guess which movie I ripped this off of Seriously, I dub this week "LLD101's Irony Fest Extravaganza". It's both unfair and narrow-minded to simply state, "lol its your average christian how stupid and unthinking conformist of him," implying that Christianity is the source of stupidity in the world. I know a 36 year old Christian with an IQ of 169, 2 PhD's, and 7 fluent languages at her disposal. She's smarter than all of us. Belief in Christianity doesn't mean anything. It's not just Christians who are guilty of such crimes; it's HUMANS; the "Blind Men and the Elephant" allegory comes to mind, and with good reason. In fact, anyone who's visited another (especially non-Western culture) should know that, even without the OH LORDY BANE OF ALL GOOD AND CAUSE OF ALL BAD Christianity, people are still the same. I didn't make this thread to make fun of Christians. I just wanted a discussion on epistemology, because Off-Topic's had some good discussions as of late. Will someone please step up to bat? I thought I'd get more hits than this. 
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Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor. Last edited by SoaringSquirrel on Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Goky
Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 1425 1.68 Silvarrr |
I'm about to run to calculus class, so I'll try to reply later or something. Just a few notes though (I'll elaborate later!): - What people who claim to be Christian say doesn't always represent what Christianity actually teaches. To requote KC who just put it a bit better than me
Well put KC. - The Bible never really goes into "Oh it is your will that on this day you will take a right turn at 11:35 which will lead you to blabla and you will find a million dollarz". It's all sort of mysticism on the part of a lot of people to add a bit more meaning to their day, I guess. If you actually read it, it seems a bit more obvious that God's will (as in desire, not as in it's going to actually happen) is that all men come to Christ, not that in 13 minutes and 26 minutes I will eat a bag of Fritos--if that was the case then we wouldn't have free will. - To prove that God exists is pretty impossible it would seem, if anything you can just debate little intracasies. It's like me asking you to prove that the universe actually exists, and we aren't all just part of some guys subconsciousness in some sort of extra-universe that we're unaware of. Good luck with that
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549 0.00 Silvarrr |
To your tentative response, I give my tentative rebuttle!
It's been a while since I've picked up the Bible, so I'll have to look at it again when I get the oppurtunity. However, are we going to have to debate about why God's omniscience and humanity's free will are mutually exclusive? Or that a "plan" in which all humans will fit also denies free will?
I acknowledge this, and such is why my exact statements were "I have sufficient evidence that negates the existence of God beyond a believable degree," and, "I will supply this argument in response to a good argument to believe in God's existence..." I'm not asking any of you to be so ambitious as to prove God's existence (though you can use a famous argument for such if you think it is an especially outstanding one), but I expect that a Christian should have a good, convincing reason for his/her belief, based on logic, inference, empiricism, etc.
Remember that the Christian is the one who is making a positive claim, and thus it is the responsibility of the Christian to present a convincing case (preferrably also avoiding the fallacy delineated by the "Law of Fives"), not the non-theist who makes no claim/negative claim. Hence, I am not held responsible for substantiating a solipsistic, "Prove to me we're not in teh Matrix and I'm not Neo!" claim, since I didn't posit it. _________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor. |
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An Edgy Proposition! *Edited the argument requirements!*
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