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LLD101 Low Level Dueling in 1.12
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The time now is Tue May 07, 2024 10:26 pm
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Is killing spirits BM??? |
Yes |
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14% |
[ 7 ] |
No |
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85% |
[ 40 ] |
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Total Votes : 47 |
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Author |
Message |
Roy
My level 18s > yours
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 5750
223.30 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:19 am Post subject:
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I haven't followed the thread since it was 14-2. But if it's 17-8, that still means that a significant majority of LLD101 supports BP in duels. Holy smokes, that means it's automatically GM!
Quote: | If you read the responses, nearly everyone who posted in the thread thought that prison should be banned. |
Of everyone who has posted in this thread, the opinions are about split evenly down the middle. This may shock you, but... some people vote without posting!
Even though people posted saying that BP is BM, the fact remains that a majority of LLD101 members believe that BP should be used/allowed. And unlike here, that poll was quite clearly worded. By your logic, Bone Prison is automatically GM, and with an overwhelming majority.
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breakbeatz2 wrote: | 2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers |
yarly
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:24 am Post subject:
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On top of all the other posts I have been making that you choose to ignore because you know you can't even imagine ever being able to properly counter-argue them, I'll also throw the fact out there that you enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing. I don't even think you believe half of the stuff you argue about anymore. Especially after this entire thread you have been pressing the fact that "poll results don't matter" only because the poll is not in your favour. But uh oh, what happens when I searched for a poll where the results WERE in your favour? What did you say then?
Roy wrote: | I'll let the poll results speak for me. |
Roy wrote: | By the way, it's quite funny that Fudge is losing in the poll, but he claims that I'm the only opponent to FG? Delusional much? Maybe you should lay off all that sugar. |
Geez rjg! Do you even care what you're arguing about, or which side you're on anymore? Or do you just like to pick a side and argue for it for dozens of pages. If you can call what you've been doing arguing, you haven't addressed a single one of my flawless points, you merely skip my posts and respond to breakbeatz.
I put forth the idea that rjg should be banned from all debating/arguing/discussion threads from now on.
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:37 am Post subject:
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rjg wrote: | Of everyone who has posted in this thread, the opinions are about split evenly down the middle. This may shock you, but... some people vote without posting! |
Enough with the blatant lies please.
People who have posted that killing spirits is GM:
Fudge, GODZ, waramp, Ehhh, meitou, Boutiehunter, Imp, Grim, GohanSSJ, Elusive, Dream, duiet_sushi, ubermoose, food-ranger, Clops, Sad, thc-matt, Educated, Belarathon, Ras, TacoBell, ThatGuy, lld_newb, Jukie, Breakbeatz
People who posted that killing spirits is BM:
rjg, iowa, Meegz, Bloodrose, Weaj, dsm-hades
Yeah rjg, REAL CLOSE THERE!
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:
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you forgot o-s-a for rjg's side, lol. But he was also talking about strictly hld
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:54 am Post subject:
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o-s-a only said "Hld GM melee killing druid's spirits has always been considored BM."
That is a neutral statement imo.
Even if you count o-s-a on rjg's side, it's still not even close and a blatant lie by rjg.
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OutlawHeaven
Bermanently Panned
Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 2274 BNet Acct/Realm: OutlawHeaven/OutlawHvn @USEast@Azeroth@AIM
12.23 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:30 am Post subject:
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OutlawHeaven wrote: | For me, it depends on what kind of duel. In a GM Melee duel, I consider killing oak/how as BM. If its like fury vs a caster, then I don't care. |
You forgot about me =/
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:
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OOPS!
That makes it 25-7.
I wish rjg wouldn't lie and say it was 50-50. I guess he didn't think I would count.
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:52 am Post subject:
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I haven't been following this discussion until the 14th page, so forgive me if my points are redundant or slow. As usual, I can't side completely with either end of the argument.
Roy wrote: | Clearly they don't. Please quote the rule stating that killing spirits is acceptable in GM melee. It doesn't exist. |
Though I voted "No", I must admit rjg certainly has the upper hand in regards to LLD101 duels. I took a look at the rules and it clearly states that no running is allowed in LLD101 tournaments, making no exceptions for going after a Spirit. In other words, LLD101 does not openly forbid the killing of a Spirit, but rather what's forbidden is moving away from your opponent at all. It makes sense, really. Let's say it's a Jabber fighting a Tiger Striker, and the latter charges up her attack completely, whereupon the Jabber runs away until the charges run out. Not very fair is it? That is not to say, however, that the rules should be this way. If I'm not mistaken, in the early days of LLD101, there were quite a number of builds were precluded from effectiveness because the ruleset overlooked some subtler aspects of character building -- collateral damage. In other words, simply because a rule exists does not mean it should be final, but rather that if a rule is a subject of contention, then said rule should be scrutinized; if it does not have a sufficient apology, then it should be revised (though obviously LLD101 doesn't seem to agree ). However, this is only in respect to the ruleset.
That's not necessarily relevant here. If you live and die by LLD101 rules, then sure, cite it as evidence. Otherwise, if you realize that rules can be flawed, then I think a better argument would be justiying why a Spirit should not be killed, as this discussion lies under LLD Discussion, not PvP discussion. That is, it is questioning the wider LLD community, and not turning exclusively to the LLD101 ruleset so for many people, citing LLD101 rules alone will not be sufficiently convincing evidence.
In my eyes, prohibiting it is a bit severe. I proudly bear the philosophy of a reductionist in this, and most, situations. Leave it open to the duelers, and they can figure it out. What's BM is first scoffing at another player for his thoughts on the matter, which first Fudge is guilty of, and then IOWA.
_________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
Last edited by SoaringSquirrel on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:05 am Post subject:
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Please link me to the rules you are looking at, the sticky I checked doesn't mention running in melee duels at all.
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:11 am Post subject:
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Also, rjg is arguing that killing a spirit is BM, not just that it is against LLD101s rules. Since he thinks it is against LLD101 rules, he believes it to be undebatably BM.
If you agree with his stance that LLD101 rules determine what is GM/BM, then you have BMed in every duel I have ever seen you participate in with your old sorc.
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:
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So what if someone goes directly to the spirit and shift attacks it before the duel and then stays shift attacking while attacking the person? Aboslutely no running around there, and that's how I'd do it anyways. And still, rjg says it's GM to run a few paces to recast buffs, but not to attack a spirit?
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:
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bb - here is the link.
It states:
Quote: | -MELEE: Toe to Toe dueling. No running is allowed. Duelers may only step away a couple steps to recast Amp, Bone Armor (limited to once per duel), Shout, Inner Sight, BoS, Oak Sage or any other character ability allowed within the rules. Mercs and attacking minions may not be utilized. In VLLD Smiters are banned from the Melee class and must compete in the Open class. |
You get your answer there, too, Bel. You "may only step away a couple steps to recast Amp, etc."
Also, I agree with you on that count, breakbeatz. Hence
SoaringSquirrel wrote: | If you live and die by LLD101 rules, then sure, cite it as evidence. Otherwise, if you realize that rules can be flawed, then I think a better argument would be justiying why a Spirit should not be killed, as this discussion lies under LLD Discussion, not PvP discussion. |
_________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
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Roy
My level 18s > yours
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 5750
223.30 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject:
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KC, as usual, you are the low dueling voice of reason. I can't add anything to your arguments, and I agree with each of your points.
Now please un-quit and come back to E/SC/L? I'll give you my passwords. I'm not joking.
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breakbeatz2 wrote: | 2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers |
yarly
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject:
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SoaringSquirrel wrote: | I voted "No" |
rjg wrote: | I agree with each of your points. |
I'm glad we settled this.
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject:
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Haha. At this rate, I don't think it'd be unfair to dub breakbeatz as LLD101's unofficial eristic extraordinaire. 'Tis true that I voted no, but I also said,
Quote: | I can't side completely with either end of the argument. |
and
Quote: | Though I voted "No", I must admit rjg certainly has the upper hand in regards to LLD101 duels. |
Funny story, Rich! These few weeks during winter break, I have a substantial amount of free time, so I borrowed my friend's LoD disc, planning to make a covert visit to E/SC/L and perhaps make a level 30 Firewall Sorc for fun. Just to catch up and the such before diving head first into the fire breathing beast of my spring semester, so I popped in the disc, only to find that my DVD drive broken for some inexplicable reason. I couldn't come back even if I wanted to anymore!
Ah, well. At least it should be comforting to know that most people with whom I've shared an account would surely attest to the fact that I'm a lousy guy to have on your account. In fact, I think my old friend Courtney actually quit LLD because of me. Another day, perhaps...
_________________
Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
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